Can I measure multichannel setups (5.1, 7.1 etc.)?

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34 comments

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    Clément Chaumeil

    Hi, do you know when the measure of a multi channel setup will be available ?

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    Teemu Hammaren

    Any progress on multi channel support? 

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    Matīss

    Hey!

     

    At the moment, we've not made any progress on multi-channel calibration due to us focusing on new releases, but it is on our road-map!

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    Fabian Schaller

    Oh yeah, please work on that!!!

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    Richard Spooner

    I have a set up in protools where I use 3 instances of sonar works on the routing that feeds my 5.1 output. Working well for everything but the Lfe. 

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    Fabian Schaller

    Nice! For 5.1 I use Nuendo. I will try it there. Thanks!!!

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    Patrice Lazareff

    Yes please, we need more 5.1 cowbell !

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    Patrice Lazareff

    @Richard Spooner Would you care to expand on that, especially for the center channel ? Thanks !

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    Richard Spooner
    Well it's definitely a work around but all I can say is that I've mixed quite a lot of TV and Theatrical Shorts with the set up and it seems to make my room translate well.
     
    Readings.
    I do three readings. 1. Left and right monitors as normal. 2. Left Sur and Right Sur monitors as you would do a normal left and right. 3. Centre and the left or right speakers.
    I don't use the delay settings that are created , just the eq. 
     
    My I/O set-up.
    In Protools I created a 5.1 bus which is called B-Chain. This 5.1 bus has 3 stereo sub-paths,  L+R. C+Lfe, Ls+Rs. 
    I have a 5.1 output that has 3 stereo sub-paths, L+R, C+Lfe, Ls+Rs. Which feed the appropriate monitors.
     
    Session Routing.
    My Final Mix 5.1 bus is sent to the 5.1 B-Chain Bus. I create 3 stereo busses who's inputs are the 3 B-Chain stereo sub-paths. These 3 stereo busses are then sent to the 3 stereo output sub-paths that feed the speakers. These 3 stereo sub-paths have the appropriate sonar works plug-ins over them with the readings I took earlier.
     
    Essentially all i'm doing is splitting the 5.1 bus into 3 SMPTE stereo paths which I can then put the stereo plug-in over before sending them back out the 5.1 outputs. It should be easier but Protools won't let you send a 5.1 bus or track to anything but a 5.1 bus or output. I think if I had something like the Spanner plug-in I could do it easier.
     
    As I said I don't use the delay feature in Sonarworks. I do delay the surrounds via another plug-in though for other reasons.
     
    This way I have 5 speakers EQ'd for the room. The Lfe just uses the reading I got for the left speaker when I measured the centre and left speaker. Not perfect but ... 
     
    Make sense ?
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    Patrice Lazareff

    Thank you very much for sharing this. Yes, it makes perfect sense and I will try asap.

    As for the delays, I have taken much care to set all 5 speakers in a perfect circle, so that should be ok.

    I've juste seen the new sonarworks website and the release of the version IV. A new hope ?

    Thanks again, kind regards,

    p@T

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    Fabian Schaller

    Any news about the multichannel support? Can't wait for that, hahaha.

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    Matt Waites

    Please do multichannel!

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    François Beauvais (Edited )

    In the meantime, here is my workaround for a "systemwide" approche to 5.1.

    First off, I should say that my main goal was to apply the calibration only to my front left and right channels while being able to listen to 5.1 references from movies and music mixes. My studio is my main listening and working room and I did not want to only have the calibration work in my DAW. I wanted a systemwide that could playback 5.1 material. The main correction was to fix a small frequency buildup between 40hz and 100hz. What I am feeding my center and surround channels dont build up those frequencies that much. It's far from perfect but better than nothing. Using the calibration on only the front left/right in a 5.1 system is still in my case, an improvement.

    The problem is that as of now, Windows (dont know about mac users) does not let you configure the Sonarworks Virtual Audio Device in 5.1 so a Systemwide approche did not work.

    The workaround requires 2 things :

    A standalone plugin called Blue Cat's Patchwork along with an audio interface that can mix input/playback/output. In my case, Totalmix FX.

    So what I end up doing is use a digital loop (jumper) from AES or ADAT Out to AES or ADAT In. The reason for going digital is that if possible, you want to avoid going through the converters twice.

    Next step is to route your playback front left/right to that loop and use Patchwork to put an instance of reference 4 plugin between. In patchwork, you select ADAT 1/2 for inputs and the two channels of your choice for outputs, in my case, I used 7/8.

    I hope this can help someone.

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    mihai

    Please add multichannel support. I'm currently using DIRAC(600 EUR per license) and it's working like a dead horse... Unlike SonarWorks (stereo) it's not even working with my Motu interface.

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    Jp

    +1 for multichannel support!

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    Mike G

    I would buy this instantly if it had multichannel support

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    Fabian Schaller

    Any news about multichannel support? Please let us know how long we have to wait more or less. Thanks ;)

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    Kārlis Stenders

    Hi Fabian and all other multi-channel enthusiasts!

    Unfortunately there's still no near future plans for this. A true multi-channel support is still very much in the cards for future, but it will be a huge long term development project for us and not so easy to allocate resources to.

    At the moment we have all of our resources working to other projects, like the soon to be released True-Fi mobile app for instance. 

    Sorry guys - there's a big chance we'll get to it, but for now we'll have to keep using the stereo workarounds. 

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    Richard Spooner

    Oh dear .. Another company not interested in their pro-users.

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    Patrice Lazareff

    That's sad news but at least, thank you for letting us know :-(

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    Kārlis Stenders

    Hi Richard, 

    I share your frustration, as we would like to take on multi-channel and it to be supported as much as anyone else. But unfortunately in the business world it's impossible to manage resources and priorities and please everyone at the same time. 

    We actually care a great deal about our pro customers as we've just recently finished rebuilding the Measure app from ground up for a major increase in measurement accuracy.

    The combination of Measure 4.1 and our individually calibrated XREF 20 mics now deliver an unprecedented +-0.9 dB measurement accuracy - if that's not caring about the pro users, we are probably on the wrong track.

    It took a lot of time and effort and the next pro side projects are already in motion as well as sorting out essential things like a proper licensing & update system. 

    In other words - we're doing what we can with what we have.

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    G Delsavio (Edited )

    Still sad, 5.1 touches definitely more pro users, compared to stereo, where the majority are enthousiasts users (studio use of course). I guess enthousiasts represents (as for most of the equipments in an average price) the majority of the users in the audio domain, so they would benefit more (in terms of selling) from the 4.1 version. You said it, we are in a business world, and the choices you made by going on the "common users side" shows that the pro users are arriving second, whatever the argumentation on the 4.1. You are a company, like all companies you need to sell, and use marketing for that, you are not to blame, and have the freedom to make whatever you want. But please don't say you care so much of pro users when the decisions are made already in another direction.

    Please do not misunderstand what I think of your product. I think they are really really good, professionally made, I don't intend to switch to anything else, and always give a good appreciation around me. Also, thank you for sharing our frustration.

    sorry for any misuse or mistake in my English

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    François Beauvais

    I understand that you seem to focus on an app. I think it would be great since I use the same headphones MDR-7520 when listening to music in the subway that the phones I use in the studio. Having that consistency would be nice. That being said, we pros mix on monitors 90% of the time. I sure hope your next battle is 5.1 calibrations. I mean it has been done for years already build in surround sound receivers so how hard can it be for someone who already has the knowledge and experience of a very successful stereo calibration software.

    It's just time and ressources. Maybe some people will disagree but I think you should have a 5.1 version very soon that cost more. Like Altiverb for instance. The stereo version at 595$  cost a little more than half of the XL 5.1 version at 995$. I think that 5.1 professionals will gladly pay more for a complete solution to calibration. I know I would. So just bite the bullet now and become the calibration software reference like Altiverb is to convolution reverb.

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    Richard Spooner

    Firstly , thanks Sonarworks for keeping this thread open as it’s a little critical, my last post was flippant I know.
    At the moment I couldn’t work without Sonarworks at my home studio, it’s truly amazing. I recently mixed a budget feature film which I played back at a top London stage and there were no surprises, the balance and tone were exactly as I had heard it at home.
    I can see that it would be a lot of work to make a surround version. Clearly you would have think about 5.1 , 7.1 and Atmos formats too.
    I wonder if the compromise would be to give us a way to calibrate and monitor a single speaker. We could then build as large monitoring setups as we needed. This could be through multiple mono plugins or a single multi channel plugin where you could load and arrange your single speaker profiles. A way of calibrating a, .1 / LFE sub would be very very useful also.
    Thanks.
    Rich.

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    Kārlis Stenders (Edited )

    Hi everyone, 

    This isn't just an excuse on our part, we've discussed this in depth with the designers and engineers and it would take a lot more resources that one might consider at first. This would involve a massive amount of development as well as a completely new Measure module; the amount of things to go wrong during the measurement stage would be greatly multiplied as well as other aspects of multi-channel calibration.

    Although the gaming and movie industry is using this, the number of users is still very small compared to stereo setup users. So again - we'd gladly take on multi-channel, but it involves a significant long term planning and the timing isn't the best at the moment. The higher priced version for multi-channel is a good idea though.

    That said, I'd like to assure everyone that we haven't forgotten about our pro-side users and we have a couple of great projects in development for all of you guys - we will not let Reference to stay stagnant, there's always something new in the works!

    Many thanks for taking interest and staying engaged with us, much appreciated!

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    Sonarworks

    Hi,

    If you cannot implement full surround support near-term, could you at least implement pass-through?

    I.e., the stereo speakers are calibrated and the other speakers are just passed through in system-wide?

     

    That should be rather simple to implement and already gives a significant value.

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    Kārlis Stenders (Edited )

    That's a good thought. It would probably be relatively easy to implement, but would require a fair bit of UI work. 

    Thanks for bringing this up, I'll see what I can do to find out exactly how much resources that would require and what the developers and designers think of this. 

  • Avatar
    François Beauvais (Edited )

    +1 for pass-through.

     

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    Sonarworks

    Thank you that would be great. Since even in surround setups the stereo speakers dominate by far, this already gives 80% of the value for 20% of the effort

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    Richard Spooner

    Can you explain more how this would useful ?

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